Stick/steam - Windows 7/Linux

[cereal killer]

HI.
I would like to purchase Zusi 3 but I need clarification.
What is the difference between the version that can be purchased on the developer's website and the Aerosoft edition available on Steam?
Are there differences in content and functionality?
I ask because I would install the simulator on an old Windows 7 PC, and Steam no longer supports this operating system.
So can I buy Zusi at www.zusi.de or would I regret it for some reason?
Thank you!

[Flo Zille]

The steam version does not include access to beta versions and updates are usually released a bit later on steam, because they have to go through a release process with Aerosoft.

The "usb stick" (flash drive) version from the developer's website uses its own update system (Dateiverwaltung) which might be a bit less robust / easy to use compared to the steam update mechanism.

There should be no differences in content or functionality. All trains and routes are available in both versions at roughly the same time (plus/minus a few days). At least that's what was said when the steam version was first released, and that promise has been kept since then.

Unless you hit some Dateiverwaltung issues when installing an update, or your USB stick breaks in a couple of years (which sometimes happens – but you can apparently exchange it for a new USB stick in that case), or plan to install Zusi on Linux later (which is easier when using steam, but not officially supported or recommended), I don't think you would regret buying the "usb stick" version.

Also, I believe developers will receive your money without giving a share to Valve and Aerosoft if you buy directly from zusi.de, so that's good. Unless you love Valve and/or Aerosoft and want them to have more money. :-)

[F. Schn.]

At the moment Windows 7 is still supported by Zusi Stick version. But Zusi still needs a computer with at least some kind of up to date performance, so it is unlikely, that this will remain for ever. The most critical point here will likely be .Net (with a simmilar issue to crome in steam). At the moment both the timetable and ZusiDisplay are targeting .Net 6, that supports Windows 7. But it might be possible, that we will both update to a newer .Net version some day (and even integrate .Net deeper into Zusi by using .Net DLL extensions). The current LTS-Version of .Net ist .Net 8, and it does not officially support Windows 7. So unless you really know how to keep a open source system like .Net running on a old system, you will likely loose compatiblity to Windows 7 in the long run.

Anyway, there are no main differences between Steam version and Stick version. I listed some of the differences here, if you want to use google translate: viewtopic.php?p=317757#p317757 In general the stick has a different copy protection and a different update mechanism, and that's basicly it. (Note, in contrast to steam, the copy protectetion of the stick versions allows you to stay on an old version of Zusi for ever.)

[cereal killer]

Thanks to both of you.
The PC is dated but not as old as the operating system.
It's still an i7 6700 with an RTX2060 and 16GB of RAM.
TSC runs more than worthily with high details.
You were talking about Linux, is it an option?
I already have a partition dedicated to Manjaro Linux and I have already run some games via the Steam client, Proton, Vulkan, etc...
Would the Steam version of Zusi 3 be usable without problems on Linux?
I find conflicting opinions on ProtonDB. Anyone use it?
Thanks again, you are very kind.

[F. Schn.]

Running Zusi on Wine or Proton is definitly an option. There is also a topic in the German section to be translated: viewtopic.php?f=47&t=10844

But on the flip side there were recently frequent notifications of one single user. And the wine experts of Zusi are all more or less abset at the moment. So in case there is a problem, support is difficult at the moment.
(In particular, this user has Problems with with .Net 6 on wine / proton, even google says, that .Net 6 is no problem and you just need to run the two insallers. But as I saied, the wine experts did not answer jet.)

But anyway: there is no disadvantage in just trying it, if you already own Zusi (either Stick or Steam version).

By the way: Did you already bought Zusi Steam version and think about buying Zusi Stick version too or do you think about what to buy?

[cereal killer]

No, I haven't bought anything yet.
I simply would like to avoid Windows 10 at the moment and a new PC suitable for running Windows 11 is not yet planned, I have many other more important problems at this stage of life.
I would have no particular doubts in preferring the Steam version, but Steam will no longer work on my old Windows 7 from one day to the next.
But if it were possible to use Zusi 3 Aerosoft/Steam edition on Linux, it would be a solution.
By purchasing it I would also have it available for when I upgrade/replace my current PC by switching to Windows 11, when I will do it, not soon.

[F. Schn.]

Zusi Stick version works on Linux/Wine too. But you need to follow the linked manual to persuade the copy protection.

[Flo Zille]

But if it were possible to use Zusi 3 Aerosoft/Steam edition on Linux, it would be a solution.

It is currently possible (and the USB stick version, too) because some Zusi users have contributed patches to wine to fix issues they encountered with Zusi. However, it seems like some minor or major thing breaks on every Zusi update. It's not your typical game that mainly uses DirectX or Vulkan and not much else. The custom game engine, deep integration with ZusiDisplay using TCP sockets and named pipes in a multi-process architecture, dotnet, etc. are probably rather "niche" use cases in Wine, so things do not appear very robust to me and game performance (FPS) on Windows is probably still better (haven't tested this in a long time). The latest Zusi update broke some ingame ZusiDisplays in some driver's cab views, for example, and we haven't figured out why yet. Since Linux is not officially supported, there is no guarantee that Zusi will keep working.

Personally, I like having my Windows 10 setup as a fall-back to use Zusi in case things break on Linux. So I wouldn't recommend Linux as the only available OS to run Zusi as there can definitely be negative surprises. It's nice when it works though since Ubuntu is my main OS that I use >>99% of the time.

It is possible to install the USB stick version through wine, but the process is more complicated. Thanks to Valve's great proton/steam integration, setup through steam was just a few mouse clicks – at least last year, when I went through that process the last time. Might be a good idea to install windows corefonts and possibly the gdiplus library through "protontricks" afterwards to improve the experience, but that wasn't strictly required back then, if I remember correctly.

[cereal killer]

Thank you Flo Zille!
Yesterday I finally purchased the Steam version.
When it stops working on Windows 7 I will try installing it on Linux. We will see.
Thanks again everyone.

[cereal killer]

Hallo!
I'm back to inform you that I just finished installing Zusi 3 on Linux via Steam, out of curiosity and to see if it worked.
Unfortunately I immediately encounter two problems:
1) The audio is corrupted
2) The Ebula display is off
At this point I have to hope that on Windows 7 it works for as long as possible.

[Flo Zille]

It looks like I finally found a fix for the "missing display" (Ebula in your case) issue in wine. ZusiDisplay uses some new TCP socket options that wine doesn't handle yet. Don't expect the fix to land quickly on your machine though. I plan to contribute it to wine, but it will have to go through their code review process. Then it will hopefully be published in a wine-devel version. The next major wine release (wine 10) is probably planned for January 2025. And then it will take a few more weeks for Valve to release Proton 10 (we're still waiting for Proton 9 currently, a beta is available). Sometimes Valve cherry-picks fixes for bugs, to release them in a follow-up release, so maybe they can be convinced to release a 9.x version later this year that contains the fix.

Interesting sound issue! Do you use Proton 9 (Beta) or Proton 8? It might be a bit better on Proton 8, because that version doesn't have the "doppler effect" implementation, so it might be a bit easier for the CPU to keep up with sound processing. Or maybe that's still not enough? Another problem is that sound performance issues can easily lead to performance issues in Zusi (i.e. some frames have really high frame times, but most are fine). A few years ago, Zusi would often freeze completely under Wine because of sound issues.

Is sound always corrupted, or only on some trains / routes? Can you give an example schedule + train number where sound is corrupted? In my experience, freight trains were most at risk of sound issues, even though I had hoped that they were solved by now.

[cereal killer]

Hallo!
I tried Zusi with Proton via Steam, not with wine!
I tried Proton 8.05 (?) and the experimental.
I don't think I noticed any concrete differences.
Rather, going from Proton 8 to experimental something a little unpleasant happened: Zusi lost the English localization and now everything is in German, which obviously puts me in difficulty.
What else to say...
Well, yesterday I forgot to report another big problem, that of performance! The game runs rather poorly, jerky and lacking in fluidity.
I tried in window and in full screen but the problem persists.
Regarding sounds, it's difficult to explain what happens.
To begin with, as soon as I open the timetable, I press f4 and instead of silence, clearly artificial sounds and glitches, come out of the speakers. When the train moves forward, there is something like a series of sounds that dominates the sounds of the cabin in the background, which are therefore a little covered.
On the diplay side however, when trying the BR111 I finally saw the Ebula panel turned on, but the one on its left remained off.
Unfortunately there are many problems.

[Flo Zille]

Alright, if it happens in Proton 8, then it's unrelated to that new doppler effect in Proton 9.

The "only one display works" issue will hopefully be fixed sooner or later (currently in code review), but having all displays work correctly will degrade peformance a bit, so maybe not really good news in your case.

So hopefully Steam will continue to support Windows 7, at least until these sound problems in Wine are fixed. I guess Bug #30639 could be responsible for the poor performance that you described. That bug is >10 years old, so looks difficult to fix.

[cereal killer]

I guess Bug #30639 could be responsible for the poor performance that you described. That bug is >10 years old, so looks difficult to fix.

I don't know, on Protondb I also found those who say that on Linux the graphics are more fluid than on Windows!

[sachsedd]

I have Stickversion and tried to install new WebInstaller in Linux.
I followed the procedure (set up stick as floppy drive), but no success.
At start the installer say USB-Device OK, but if click install USB-Device fail.

Error message: "Stick passt nicht zur Lizenz der Zusu-Installation"

Console log says:

00b8:fixme:wineusb:query_id Unhandled ID query type 0x5.
0024:fixme:thread:GetThreadUILanguage : stub, returning default language.
0024:fixme:nls:RtlGetThreadPreferredUILanguages 00000038, 00E1D9B8, 00000000 00E1D9E0
0024:fixme:nls:get_dummy_preferred_ui_language (0x38 0x409 00E1D9B8 00000000 00E1D9E0) returning a dummy value (current locale)
0024:fixme:nls:RtlGetThreadPreferredUILanguages 00000038, 00E1D9B8, 015BA680 00E1D9E0
0024:fixme:nls:get_dummy_preferred_ui_language (0x38 0x409 00E1D9B8 015BA680 00E1D9E0) returning a dummy value (current locale)
Extracting _InstSetup\lib\sevenzip\7za.dll
Extracting _InstSetup\lib\MatrixLock\matrix32.dll
Extracting _InstSetup\lib\Rockey\Ry4S.dll
Extracting ZusiWebInstaller.exe
Starting ZusiWebInstaller.exe
0130:fixme:thread:GetThreadUILanguage : stub, returning default language.
0130:fixme:nls:RtlGetThreadPreferredUILanguages 00000038, 00CBD9F4, 00000000 00CBDA1C
0130:fixme:nls:get_dummy_preferred_ui_language (0x38 0x409 00CBD9F4 00000000 00CBDA1C) returning a dummy value (current locale)
0130:fixme:nls:RtlGetThreadPreferredUILanguages 00000038, 00CBD9F4, 0251A680 00CBDA1C
0130:fixme:nls:get_dummy_preferred_ui_language (0x38 0x409 00CBD9F4 0251A680 00CBDA1C) returning a dummy value (current locale)
0130:fixme:system:NtUserSystemParametersInfo Unknown action: 8220
0130:fixme:wtsapi:WTSRegisterSessionNotification Stub 0001008E 0x00000000
0130:fixme:uxtheme:BufferedPaintInit Stub ()
0130:fixme:system:EnableNonClientDpiScaling (000100A0): stub
0130:fixme:system:EnableNonClientDpiScaling (000100B6): stub
0130:fixme:richedit:editor_handle_message EM_SETMARGINS: stub
0130:fixme:richedit:editor_handle_message EM_SETEDITSTYLE: stub
0130:fixme:wincodecs:BitmapScaler_Initialize unsupported mode 4
0130:fixme:wbemprox:wbem_locator_ConnectServer authentication not supported
0130:fixme:wbemprox:wbem_locator_ConnectServer specific locale not supported
0058:fixme:mountmgr:query_property Faking StorageDeviceProperty data
0058:fixme:mountmgr:harddisk_ioctl The DISK_PARTITION_INFO and DISK_DETECTION_INFO structures will not be filled
0130:fixme:wincodecs:BitmapScaler_Initialize unsupported mode 4

Someone an idea how to solve it?


PS: Installing old version from Stick works fine.

[Johannes]

I followed the procedure (set up stick as floppy drive), but no success.

Can you elaborate? Which exact procedure did you follow?

The current one is documented here (in German only, just use a translator): viewtopic.php?f=47&t=10844

[sachsedd]

I am german, only write in english here so everyone can read it.

Procedure:
1. wine /pfad/zu/ZusiWebInstallerLauncher.exe
2. /pfad/zu/setup.bash "C:\\Users\\<Benutzername>\\Temp\\ZusiWebInstaller.exe"

ZusiWebInstaller.exe was not found so I had used ZusiWebInstallerLauncher.exe again.
Now after using
1. updatedb
2. locate -i ZusiWebInstaller.exe

I see path has changed to "C:\\Users\\<Benutzername>\\AppData\\Local\\Temp\\ZusiWebInstaller.exe".
With this path the rest of the procedure works fine.

[Johannes]

Danke, hab die Anleitung angepasst.

[Alexander D]

Hi!

I just also tried to install on Ubuntu and followed both the manual for the "normal" installer and the web-installer. Both lead to an error where "No USB stick found." is printed in the command line after clicking on install on the GUI of the installer. For the web-installer, the error message is "Stick passt nicht zur Lizenz der Zusu-Installation", same as mentioned above.

I would appreciate a tip on what to check, thanks in advance!

Alexander

[Johannes]

"No USB stick found." ist aber sicher nicht die einzige Konsolenausgabe, oder?