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 Betreff des Beitrags: Koeln-Dusseldorf - Traffic Stuck
BeitragVerfasst: 06.08.2020 22:07:35 
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Registriert: 22.07.2020
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Hello,

what has just happened to me: I was driving on the K-D using the 8-11 timetable, one of the 423 services. Suddenly I got red light in the middle of the way to Dusseldorf (before Langenfeld). I stopped correctly in front of the red, but it seemed not to go away. So I went past it using the befehl 40 and what I saw was 3 stuck BR 423s in front of me, all on red; was waiting for 5-10 mins and nothing was happening. Is this a bug or is there some solution to this?

Additionally - in case some signal lights fail (as part of the "chaos" setting), how do I actually recognize these and how do I deal with them?

Many thanks for any help!


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 Betreff des Beitrags: Re: Koeln-Dusseldorf - Traffic Stuck
BeitragVerfasst: 07.08.2020 17:51:46 
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Wohnort: Mannheim
jstange hat geschrieben:
Is this a bug or is there some solution to this?

Depending on the chaos setting there are some circumstances (and places) in which Zusi somtimes creates a deadlock. Langenfeld is a popular candidate for a deadlock with many suburban trians on a tight schedule and only a single track used in both directions.

Zusi is not very smart when managing trains at 'bottlenecks'. It needs predefined dependencies which trains use which infrastructure and which train goes first. When something goes not as planned it can happen that every stopped train is waiting for another one, which is waiting for another one......... (classic deadlock).
To improve this Zusi would need a full-on interlocking-simulation with at least some A.I. to manage the traffic correctly.
As Zusi is no full-on interlocking-simulation one has to live with the flaws that come with this.


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 Betreff des Beitrags: Re: Koeln-Dusseldorf - Traffic Stuck
BeitragVerfasst: 08.08.2020 08:32:21 
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Thanks for the reply. Can't say I'm not disappointed, as I was under the impression that traffic management works perfectly in Zusi (unlike TS).

Can I please ask about the second part of my original post: how do I recognioze faulty signals and how to deal with them if encountered?


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 Betreff des Beitrags: Re: Koeln-Dusseldorf - Traffic Stuck
BeitragVerfasst: 08.08.2020 10:24:43 
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jstange hat geschrieben:
Thanks for the reply. Can't say I'm not disappointed, as I was under the impression that traffic management works perfectly in Zusi (unlike TS).

Zusi is a prefect rail simulation not a perfect interlocking simulation. Considering that the realism is still very high. There are flaws under certain circumstances, of course.


Zitat:
Can I please ask about the second part of my original post: how do I recognioze faulty signals and how to deal with them if encountered?

In Zusi there are no real faulty signals.
In reality there are a number of ways a signal can malfunction which can oder cannot be noticed in some way. This is not implemented in Zusi as there is somehow no limit to what can go wrong. Starting from a broken lamp to a tree that has fallen on the signal.

In Zusi there are only Zs 1, Zs 7 and "Befehl" (I don't know the correct English term) which should be well documented in the manual. In this case the signal is not necessarily faulty, there can be other faults (switches e.g.) which cause the need of Zs 1, Zs 7 and "Befehl".


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 Betreff des Beitrags: Re: Koeln-Dusseldorf - Traffic Stuck
BeitragVerfasst: 08.08.2020 11:10:25 
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Thanks! Befehl means order but I don't think that's important, I know what it's about.

I've read in one of the forum posts something like that "there's too many faulty signals if the chaos setting is set too high", that's why I asked.

By the way, the fact that I can go through the red using the Befehl 40 is determined by white light accompanying the red or I can actually pass any red and then drive based on visual clues (expect there's an object in front of me in the given track segment)?

(Although I know something about German signaling, PZB and LZB, I admit I haven't finished reading the manual so the answer may well be there...)


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 Betreff des Beitrags: Re: Koeln-Dusseldorf - Traffic Stuck
BeitragVerfasst: 08.08.2020 13:00:12 
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Registriert: 01.06.2015
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Wohnort: BW Schöneweide
Aktuelle Projekte: http://www.zusidatenbank.de/
You can only pass the signal if it has the extra white or orange lights, or if you receive a written order(Befehl).

The primary difference between TS and Z3 as I understand it is that TS has no real concept of a timetable and sets routes on a "first come, first served" basis. In Zusi the route is set shortly before the departure time.

_________________
Autor - Zusi 3 C++ Client, http://www.zusidatenbank.de/ - Das Zusi3 Addon-Datenbank


Zuletzt geändert von jonathanp am 08.08.2020 13:00:58, insgesamt 2-mal geändert.

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 Betreff des Beitrags: Re: Koeln-Dusseldorf - Traffic Stuck
BeitragVerfasst: 08.08.2020 15:35:00 
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jstange hat geschrieben:
By the way, the fact that I can go through the red using the Befehl 40 is determined by white light accompanying the red or I can actually pass any red and then drive based on visual clues (expect there's an object in front of me in the given track segment)?


Usually you are only allowed to pass a red signal when you have an order, Zs 1 oder Zs 7 (or Zs 8).

In real life there are some exceptions that allow you to pass a signal on sight:

a) if your signal has this sign:
Bild
you can pass the red light only if you can't contact the dispatcher, you have to drive on sight until the next signal.

b) if your signal has this sign:
Bild
this sign is only used for the surburban railways of Hamburg and Berlin.

c) if your signal has this sign additionally:
Bild
you can pass the red light simply if the dispatcher tells you to. This sign is also mostly used only in suburban railway systems.

In Zusi you can't use either method. You will always get an order or a Zs1/7/8 if you are allowed to pass a red signal.


btw: like in real life you can pass any red signal using Befehl 40 in Zusi, even if you are not allowed to


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 Betreff des Beitrags: Re: Koeln-Dusseldorf - Traffic Stuck
BeitragVerfasst: 08.08.2020 16:27:42 
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Wohnort: Haidlfing
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Hello,

another side effect of passing a red signal using Befehl 40 without the Zusi dispachers intention is that the train will no longer be considered by the dispatcher. Weird things my happen, and best thing to do is to restart the timetable.

Christian


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