Stick/steam - Windows 7/Linux

Hey folks, everyone speaking English may write in this category!
Antworten
Nachricht
Autor
cereal killer
Beiträge: 22
Registriert: 26.02.2024 02:40:51

Stick/steam - Windows 7/Linux

#1 Beitrag von cereal killer »

HI.
I would like to purchase Zusi 3 but I need clarification.
What is the difference between the version that can be purchased on the developer's website and the Aerosoft edition available on Steam?
Are there differences in content and functionality?
I ask because I would install the simulator on an old Windows 7 PC, and Steam no longer supports this operating system.
So can I buy Zusi at www.zusi.de or would I regret it for some reason?
Thank you!

Flo Zille
Beiträge: 203
Registriert: 15.05.2018 09:06:32

Re: One simple question, please... :D

#2 Beitrag von Flo Zille »

The steam version does not include access to beta versions and updates are usually released a bit later on steam, because they have to go through a release process with Aerosoft.

The "usb stick" (flash drive) version from the developer's website uses its own update system (Dateiverwaltung) which might be a bit less robust / easy to use compared to the steam update mechanism.

There should be no differences in content or functionality. All trains and routes are available in both versions at roughly the same time (plus/minus a few days). At least that's what was said when the steam version was first released, and that promise has been kept since then.

Unless you hit some Dateiverwaltung issues when installing an update, or your USB stick breaks in a couple of years (which sometimes happens – but you can apparently exchange it for a new USB stick in that case), or plan to install Zusi on Linux later (which is easier when using steam, but not officially supported or recommended), I don't think you would regret buying the "usb stick" version.

Also, I believe developers will receive your money without giving a share to Valve and Aerosoft if you buy directly from zusi.de, so that's good. Unless you love Valve and/or Aerosoft and want them to have more money. :-)

Benutzeravatar
F. Schn.
Beiträge: 6675
Registriert: 24.10.2011 18:58:26

Re: One simple question, please... :D

#3 Beitrag von F. Schn. »

At the moment Windows 7 is still supported by Zusi Stick version. But Zusi still needs a computer with at least some kind of up to date performance, so it is unlikely, that this will remain for ever. The most critical point here will likely be .Net (with a simmilar issue to crome in steam). At the moment both the timetable and ZusiDisplay are targeting .Net 6, that supports Windows 7. But it might be possible, that we will both update to a newer .Net version some day (and even integrate .Net deeper into Zusi by using .Net DLL extensions). The current LTS-Version of .Net ist .Net 8, and it does not officially support Windows 7. So unless you really know how to keep a open source system like .Net running on a old system, you will likely loose compatiblity to Windows 7 in the long run.

Anyway, there are no main differences between Steam version and Stick version. I listed some of the differences here, if you want to use google translate: viewtopic.php?p=317757#p317757 In general the stick has a different copy protection and a different update mechanism, and that's basicly it. (Note, in contrast to steam, the copy protectetion of the stick versions allows you to stay on an old version of Zusi for ever.)
Diese Signatur möchte folgendes bekannter machen: ZusiWiki · ZusiSK: Streckenprojekte · YouTube: Objektbau für Zusi · euirc: Zusi-Chat

cereal killer
Beiträge: 22
Registriert: 26.02.2024 02:40:51

Re: One simple question, please... :D

#4 Beitrag von cereal killer »

Thanks to both of you.
The PC is dated but not as old as the operating system.
It's still an i7 6700 with an RTX2060 and 16GB of RAM.
TSC runs more than worthily with high details.
You were talking about Linux, is it an option?
I already have a partition dedicated to Manjaro Linux and I have already run some games via the Steam client, Proton, Vulkan, etc...
Would the Steam version of Zusi 3 be usable without problems on Linux?
I find conflicting opinions on ProtonDB. Anyone use it?
Thanks again, you are very kind.

Benutzeravatar
F. Schn.
Beiträge: 6675
Registriert: 24.10.2011 18:58:26

Re: One simple question, please... :D

#5 Beitrag von F. Schn. »

Running Zusi on Wine or Proton is definitly an option. There is also a topic in the German section to be translated: viewtopic.php?f=47&t=10844

But on the flip side there were recently frequent notifications of one single user. And the wine experts of Zusi are all more or less abset at the moment. So in case there is a problem, support is difficult at the moment.
(In particular, this user has Problems with with .Net 6 on wine / proton, even google says, that .Net 6 is no problem and you just need to run the two insallers. But as I saied, the wine experts did not answer jet.)

But anyway: there is no disadvantage in just trying it, if you already own Zusi (either Stick or Steam version).

By the way: Did you already bought Zusi Steam version and think about buying Zusi Stick version too or do you think about what to buy?
Diese Signatur möchte folgendes bekannter machen: ZusiWiki · ZusiSK: Streckenprojekte · YouTube: Objektbau für Zusi · euirc: Zusi-Chat

cereal killer
Beiträge: 22
Registriert: 26.02.2024 02:40:51

Re: One simple question, please... :D

#6 Beitrag von cereal killer »

No, I haven't bought anything yet.
I simply would like to avoid Windows 10 at the moment and a new PC suitable for running Windows 11 is not yet planned, I have many other more important problems at this stage of life.
I would have no particular doubts in preferring the Steam version, but Steam will no longer work on my old Windows 7 from one day to the next.
But if it were possible to use Zusi 3 Aerosoft/Steam edition on Linux, it would be a solution.
By purchasing it I would also have it available for when I upgrade/replace my current PC by switching to Windows 11, when I will do it, not soon.

Benutzeravatar
F. Schn.
Beiträge: 6675
Registriert: 24.10.2011 18:58:26

Re: One simple question, please... :D

#7 Beitrag von F. Schn. »

Zusi Stick version works on Linux/Wine too. But you need to follow the linked manual to persuade the copy protection.
Diese Signatur möchte folgendes bekannter machen: ZusiWiki · ZusiSK: Streckenprojekte · YouTube: Objektbau für Zusi · euirc: Zusi-Chat

Flo Zille
Beiträge: 203
Registriert: 15.05.2018 09:06:32

Re: One simple question, please... :D

#8 Beitrag von Flo Zille »

cereal killer hat geschrieben: 26.02.2024 17:49:03 But if it were possible to use Zusi 3 Aerosoft/Steam edition on Linux, it would be a solution.
It is currently possible (and the USB stick version, too) because some Zusi users have contributed patches to wine to fix issues they encountered with Zusi. However, it seems like some minor or major thing breaks on every Zusi update. It's not your typical game that mainly uses DirectX or Vulkan and not much else. The custom game engine, deep integration with ZusiDisplay using TCP sockets and named pipes in a multi-process architecture, dotnet, etc. are probably rather "niche" use cases in Wine, so things do not appear very robust to me and game performance (FPS) on Windows is probably still better (haven't tested this in a long time). The latest Zusi update broke some ingame ZusiDisplays in some driver's cab views, for example, and we haven't figured out why yet. Since Linux is not officially supported, there is no guarantee that Zusi will keep working.

Personally, I like having my Windows 10 setup as a fall-back to use Zusi in case things break on Linux. So I wouldn't recommend Linux as the only available OS to run Zusi as there can definitely be negative surprises. It's nice when it works though since Ubuntu is my main OS that I use >>99% of the time.

It is possible to install the USB stick version through wine, but the process is more complicated. Thanks to Valve's great proton/steam integration, setup through steam was just a few mouse clicks – at least last year, when I went through that process the last time. Might be a good idea to install windows corefonts and possibly the gdiplus library through "protontricks" afterwards to improve the experience, but that wasn't strictly required back then, if I remember correctly.

cereal killer
Beiträge: 22
Registriert: 26.02.2024 02:40:51

Re: One simple question, please... :D

#9 Beitrag von cereal killer »

Thank you Flo Zille!
Yesterday I finally purchased the Steam version.
When it stops working on Windows 7 I will try installing it on Linux. We will see.
Thanks again everyone.

cereal killer
Beiträge: 22
Registriert: 26.02.2024 02:40:51

Re: Stick/steam - Windows 7/Linux

#10 Beitrag von cereal killer »

Hallo!
I'm back to inform you that I just finished installing Zusi 3 on Linux via Steam, out of curiosity and to see if it worked.
Unfortunately I immediately encounter two problems:
1) The audio is corrupted
2) The Ebula display is off
At this point I have to hope that on Windows 7 it works for as long as possible. :D

Flo Zille
Beiträge: 203
Registriert: 15.05.2018 09:06:32

Re: Stick/steam - Windows 7/Linux

#11 Beitrag von Flo Zille »

It looks like I finally found a fix for the "missing display" (Ebula in your case) issue in wine. ZusiDisplay uses some new TCP socket options that wine doesn't handle yet. Don't expect the fix to land quickly on your machine though. I plan to contribute it to wine, but it will have to go through their code review process. Then it will hopefully be published in a wine-devel version. The next major wine release (wine 10) is probably planned for January 2025. And then it will take a few more weeks for Valve to release Proton 10 (we're still waiting for Proton 9 currently, a beta is available). Sometimes Valve cherry-picks fixes for bugs, to release them in a follow-up release, so maybe they can be convinced to release a 9.x version later this year that contains the fix.

Interesting sound issue! Do you use Proton 9 (Beta) or Proton 8? It might be a bit better on Proton 8, because that version doesn't have the "doppler effect" implementation, so it might be a bit easier for the CPU to keep up with sound processing. Or maybe that's still not enough? Another problem is that sound performance issues can easily lead to performance issues in Zusi (i.e. some frames have really high frame times, but most are fine). A few years ago, Zusi would often freeze completely under Wine because of sound issues.

Is sound always corrupted, or only on some trains / routes? Can you give an example schedule + train number where sound is corrupted? In my experience, freight trains were most at risk of sound issues, even though I had hoped that they were solved by now.

cereal killer
Beiträge: 22
Registriert: 26.02.2024 02:40:51

Re: Stick/steam - Windows 7/Linux

#12 Beitrag von cereal killer »

Hallo!
I tried Zusi with Proton via Steam, not with wine!
I tried Proton 8.05 (?) and the experimental.
I don't think I noticed any concrete differences.
Rather, going from Proton 8 to experimental something a little unpleasant happened: Zusi lost the English localization and now everything is in German, which obviously puts me in difficulty.
What else to say...
Well, yesterday I forgot to report another big problem, that of performance! The game runs rather poorly, jerky and lacking in fluidity.
I tried in window and in full screen but the problem persists.
Regarding sounds, it's difficult to explain what happens.
To begin with, as soon as I open the timetable, I press f4 and instead of silence, clearly artificial sounds and glitches, come out of the speakers. When the train moves forward, there is something like a series of sounds that dominates the sounds of the cabin in the background, which are therefore a little covered.
On the diplay side however, when trying the BR111 I finally saw the Ebula panel turned on, but the one on its left remained off.
Unfortunately there are many problems.

Flo Zille
Beiträge: 203
Registriert: 15.05.2018 09:06:32

Re: Stick/steam - Windows 7/Linux

#13 Beitrag von Flo Zille »

Alright, if it happens in Proton 8, then it's unrelated to that new doppler effect in Proton 9.

The "only one display works" issue will hopefully be fixed sooner or later (currently in code review), but having all displays work correctly will degrade peformance a bit, so maybe not really good news in your case.

So hopefully Steam will continue to support Windows 7, at least until these sound problems in Wine are fixed. I guess Bug #30639 could be responsible for the poor performance that you described. That bug is >10 years old, so looks difficult to fix.

cereal killer
Beiträge: 22
Registriert: 26.02.2024 02:40:51

Re: Stick/steam - Windows 7/Linux

#14 Beitrag von cereal killer »

Flo Zille hat geschrieben: 29.02.2024 17:04:37 I guess Bug #30639 could be responsible for the poor performance that you described. That bug is >10 years old, so looks difficult to fix.
I don't know, on Protondb I also found those who say that on Linux the graphics are more fluid than on Windows! :D

Antworten