Problems with BR422

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KSWKR
Beiträge: 4
Registriert: 06.02.2022 05:11:35

Problems with BR422

#1 Beitrag von KSWKR »

Greeting from South Korea with great pleasant. i`m experiencing some problem of BR422/423. So I`m asking for some advice to solve them.

Here`s the quick description and questions about them
All problems are experienced at ZUSI3 3.4.6.0

1.Reversers
In case I made unintended station passing I have to reverse the direction to opposite way. but I`m unable to change its direction on BR 442/443
The reverser key switch never worked as what it should be. It just stuck in the same position when I press the PageUp or PageDown. I`ve tried several ways to solve this problem but still don`t have any ideas about how it works

2.ZUSI Display
Whenever I tried to start MMI/CCD of BR 422 in ZUSI Display, it always me shows me sort of error messeages about XML files. All files are in vanilla state.
Before the update, MMI/CCD of BR 422 can`t receive the PZB data from ZUSI3. Only Speedmeter works fine.

Thank you.

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Carsten Hölscher
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Re: Problems with BR422

#2 Beitrag von Carsten Hölscher »

Maybe the "throttle" wasn't in neutral position?

Carsten

CGAR
Beiträge: 6
Registriert: 14.12.2020 16:06:13

Re: Problems with BR422

#3 Beitrag von CGAR »

I am not exactly sure about the regulations in Korea but I wonder if reversing a train because of a missed stopping point is something that is done. I experienced this in Japan but can't remember ever seeing something like this in Germany. I am not an trained driver but I would guess that you would not reverse but instead go on to the next station skipping the missed stop. ?(

F(R)S-Bauer
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Re: Problems with BR422

#4 Beitrag von F(R)S-Bauer »

Hello to Korean,

Translation by DeepL:
In the German train system, the independent resetting of train movements is generally prohibited. The only exception is shunting, but Zusi cannot do that. This is due to the requirement that the train head must always be occupied, and that is in the direction of travel in front, not where the locomotive is.
For this reason, it leads to unpredictable behavior in Zusi when you do this. Up to train crossings and blockades.

If you do this at the real Deutsche Bahn, you will definitely get an interview with the boss if the responsible dispatcher has not agreed to the whole thing. He can allow it. (And some others)

At the real railroad this is due to the fact that not all safety systems can handle this

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Regards

Ralf

KSWKR
Beiträge: 4
Registriert: 06.02.2022 05:11:35

Re: Problems with BR422

#5 Beitrag von KSWKR »

Carsten Hölscher hat geschrieben: 01.08.2022 00:22:03 Maybe the "throttle" wasn't in neutral position?

Carsten
maybe this caused my problem. I'm using Saitek Throttle Quardrant as Throttle for ZUSI. As I put throttle on the Middle of its movement range. ZUSI determines it as Neutral Position indeed hardware input wasn't on the Neutral! So if I adjust my input of throttle to complete neutral posistion(0 for Software input) by numpad this can be solved more easier than we think 😀

KSWKR
Beiträge: 4
Registriert: 06.02.2022 05:11:35

Re: Problems with BR422

#6 Beitrag von KSWKR »

CGAR hat geschrieben: 01.08.2022 12:31:38 I am not exactly sure about the regulations in Korea but I wonder if reversing a train because of a missed stopping point is something that is done. I experienced this in Japan but can't remember ever seeing something like this in Germany. I am not an trained driver but I would guess that you would not reverse but instead go on to the next station skipping the missed stop. ?(
May different story if I passed more thab 200m from end of the platform. 🤦

Same regulation exists in korea. But unless the last car passed the front Signal(Departing Signal or Block Signal) or end of the platform we can reverse to adjust stop position by overrun with notification to dispatcher.

(Sorry for bad translation..Google translation between Korean-German never did good job)
KORAIL Verkehrsregeln
Art. 35 (Rückwärtsbetrieb von Zügen) 1 Züge dürfen keinen Rückwärtsbetrieb durchführen. Ausnahmen werden jedoch in den folgenden Fällen gemacht. <Überarbeitet am 26.06.2020.>
1. Im Falle eines Eisenbahnunfalls (einschließlich Invalidität) und einer Katastrophe
2. Betreiber von Bauzügen, Rettungszügen, Probefahrtzügen oder Schneeräumzügen;
Fall 3.
3. Bei unvermeidbaren Fahrbedingungen wie unzureichender Traktion eines angetriebenen Fahrzeugs oder Anhalten in einem isolierten Abschnitt
4.Wenn Sie an der Halteposition vorbei anhalten. Ausgenommen sind jedoch Nahverkehrszüge und Hochgeschwindigkeitszüge, deren Zugende außerhalb des Abfahrtssignals liegt, und für elektrische Züge gilt Artikel 10 der 「Vorschriften für den Betrieb von Eisenbahnen im flächengebundenen Verkehr」.
2 Der regressive Betrieb gemäß der Maßgabe von Absatz
1 muss von der für die Verarbeitung Verantwortlichen genehmigt werden, und es sind Maßnahmen gemäß jedem Unterabsatz (c) zu ergreifen. <Überarbeitet am 26.06.2020.>
Die Steuerung erkennt, dass das angezeigte Signal auf dem Signal hinter dem Zug steht
Bei einer Änderung sind Maßnahmen zu treffen, damit der nachfolgende Zug nicht gestört wird.
Ein Zugbegleiter oder Stellvertreter hat bei Rückwärtsfahrt nach Absatz 1 den bisherigen Fahrbetrieb durchzuführen. Allerdings als fester Zug, das hintere Führerhaus
Ausnahmen werden beim Einfahren gemacht
Obsession to correct stop position wasn't that hard both in Seoul Metropolitan Railway(S-Bhan in German) and conventional railway*(RB, RE, ICE in German). +-4m tolerance
After installation of Platform Screen Doors(PSD) in Metropolitan Railway they only got +-40'cm' tolerance to match position with PSD.

*Different lower platform height, these include KTX,ITX, Mugungwha..etc)

KSWKR
Beiträge: 4
Registriert: 06.02.2022 05:11:35

Re: Problems with BR422

#7 Beitrag von KSWKR »

F(R)S-Bauer hat geschrieben: 01.08.2022 15:09:38 Hello to Korean,

Translation by DeepL:
In the German train system, the independent resetting of train movements is generally prohibited. The only exception is shunting, but Zusi cannot do that. This is due to the requirement that the train head must always be occupied, and that is in the direction of travel in front, not where the locomotive is.
For this reason, it leads to unpredictable behavior in Zusi when you do this. Up to train crossings and blockades.

If you do this at the real Deutsche Bahn, you will definitely get an interview with the boss if the responsible dispatcher has not agreed to the whole thing. He can allow it. (And some others)

At the real railroad this is due to the fact that not all safety systems can handle this

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Regards

Ralf
Can reverse cause the break of the ZUSI system in moving of the same occupied signal block(?) without Crossings? I know there are danger of un authorized reversing between crossings. We had incident(derailing) in 2018 in korea even there was several safety system (Interlocking and CTC system, Route Locking, Approach Locking, Stick Locking..etc)

F(R)S-Bauer
Beiträge: 6087
Registriert: 09.11.2002 02:00:47
Aktuelle Projekte: Sich in die Rente retten...2026...

Re: Problems with BR422

#8 Beitrag von F(R)S-Bauer »

KSWKR hat geschrieben: 01.08.2022 16:31:29 ..] Can reverse cause the break of the ZUSI system in moving of the same occupied signal block(?) without Crossings? I know there are danger of un authorized reversing between crossings. We had incident(derailing) in 2018 in korea even there was several safety system (Interlocking and CTC system, Route Locking, Approach Locking, Stick Locking..etc)
Hello,

Zusi has so-called events and registers in the route, which perform certain functions. These can be direction-dependent, but do not have to be. You cannot see these events. There are almost always events at signals, as well as at switches, level crossings and platforms. But also at certain other places in a block. As long as you don't drive over them, nothing will happen, but without looking into the track you don't know where they are. So, it can work, but it doesn't have to. Can also be that the timetable then runs amok or blocked.

Translated with www.DeepL.com/Translator (free version)

Regards

Ralf

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