Zusi 3

[Tommi Salonen]

Hello,

In the German-language threads, Zusi 3 seems to get mentioned in many messages. I guess someone knows what the situation is with Zusi 3?

Regards,

Tommi

[Roland Ziegler]

Ther's a running gag going on here that each question in the forum for Zusi 3 will delay its release by one week.

Carsten has already published information about a new track-laying tool, which will simplify route construction for Zusi3 significantly: http://zusiforum.eisenbahn-seiten.de/vi ... php?t=5686

He recently showed the people at the Aachen Stammtisch a preview of the new Zusi3 Cab Editor.

So - work is going there, and I'm sure Carsten will make make more announcements in due time.

[Tommi Salonen]

Ther's a running gag going on here that each question in the forum for Zusi 3 will delay its release by one week.

Jeeze, poor me, didn't know what I was doing, then!

Carsten has already published information about a new track-laying tool, which will simplify route construction for Zusi3 significantly: http://zusiforum.eisenbahn-seiten.de/vi ... php?t=5686

Thanks Roland, I'll try and see how much I can understand.

-Tommi

[Vern]

Anything that eliminates those awful vector arrows (particularly by points and switches where they get tiny) will be welcome! I assume the new system will be similar to Trainz where you can place direction or priority markers after each junction or set of points?

[Roland Ziegler]

According to the preliminary documentation:

The new track-laying editor in Zusi 3 will work with larger geometric elements: straight lines, circular arcs and clothoids/Cornu's spirals (transition curves) - all too familiar, of course. Placing and editing these elements will be aided by several editor functions. Absteckrechner will be included in this tool.

Points/Switches will be selected from a tool-kit with predefined geometry and bended to fit if placed in curves.

[Jpl]

Now this looks very impressive. Keep the good work going.

Will there be support for shunting operations ?

[pospec]

Hello Jpl and everyone!

I think that this topic is dead. Better description of english section could be Don't be shy, we won't type.

I bet that there are loads of infos about Zusi 3 in german section. But what about us?

Get inspired by Poland simulator MaSzyna EU07. It is entirely in english - both the simulator and the forum. I don't think that it is better simulation but it is much more "novice-driver-friendly".

I like Zusi very much and I think that it still can be world simulator #1, but now it is just german simulator with a decent english support. If all editors and documentation would be in english, then MAYBE there could be much more tracks from different countries.

How old is Zusi? Over three years. I discovered it about six months and it was partly a consequence of language barrier. English section of official site was open few months ago.

Carsten, don't you think that there is much more customers outside of germany than you have now? I do.

As Jpl wrote - KEEP THE GOOD WORK GOING CARSTEN!

P.S.: Jpl, I say YES to shunting operations.

[Carsten Hölscher]

Most of the documentation is available in English, too. And most of the programme's texts can be translated as well. (see download-page).

Zusi 3 will be 100% translatable. The shunting-question has not been answered in the German forum either.

Carsten

[Oliver Lamm]

@pospec:

I think you're are judging to fast. First of all the community can only answer questions that has been asked. I can only see one question of jpl and there is simply no answer to it as only Carsten knows the answer. So what do you expect ?

If there is any big problem just ask in the german forums, even if you write in english it will be answered and - if necessary - moved to here later for archiving.

[pospec]

Thank you for your opinions.

I just feel embarrassed of fact, that most of the conversation about Zusi is done in german. It is a pity, because we (non-german) can react only on a few topics. There are sections that I'd like to read (and post there), but I'm not "in the picture". Especially sections Wünsche (wishes?), Tipps and Tricks and Zusi-Technik.

It seems to me that lots of the most common problems were asked/answered twice - in both languages. I think that it is "good-for-nothing". I don't know how much is the community growing, but I see that most of members are german-speaking. I stand up for english. Is there any GOOD reason to prefer german?

I can't wait for Zusi 3. I'm very curious what all is going to change. I hope that not only the application.

[Christoph Blümer]

Is there any GOOD reason to prefer german?

Yes. I think, at least 90% of the community are speaking german as first language or can follow german discussions actively and passively very well. I understand your problem, but I think that a lot of people wouldn't be interested very much in english discussions because it's for most of the users a foreign language.

Christoph

[pospec]

Yes, that is easy...

[Arie van Zon]

Another option is to read the wish-, tips and tricks and technic section through Babelfish. I know Babelfish's translation isn't perfect, but at least it'd give you a guess what's talked about. If it isn't clear enough, please just ask (in English if you like, ou au français, of in het Nederlands ).

Groeten, Arie

[Christopher Spies]

I think, at least 90% of the community are speaking german as first language or can follow german discussions actively and passively very well. I understand your problem, but I think that a lot of people wouldn't be interested very much in english discussions because it's for most of the users a foreign language.

Isn't that a vicious circle?

most Zusi users are german
==> the community demands routes built using real maps and plans
==> users build routes nearby their location
==> most Zusi routes are german
==> german signals and rolling stock are required for german routes
==> Carsten is not encouraged to implement foreign signal systems, train control systems etc. into Zusi
==> german routes are more realistic and more diviersified than non-german routes
==> german routes are more entertaining (especially for german users, since they are familiar with what they see)
==> most Zusi users are german

• Zusi users most often build routes nearby their current place of residence, because it is expensive to travel around to investigate railway constructions (this will become an even bigger problem with Zusi3, when textures will be required), and because routes get more interesting when you know some of their specific features and anomalies -- which you don't get to know from visiting them just once or twice.
• It is hard to get official, technical documentation from outside Germany, so even the users that would like to build a route they know e.g. from a holiday trip limit themselves to german routes.
• Few non-german users also mean that there is little knowledge about foreign signal and train control systems present in the Zusi community. Because few user miss and request these systems, Carsten isn't encouraged to implement them. Also, Carsten doesn't have time to research these systems by himself, so he needs helpers that collect information and pass it to him.
• As most routes are german, mostly germans are attracted to buying Zusi.
• The vicious circle goes on and on and on...

Discussing in english is no problem for me . I wouldn't mind if this forum was entirely in english.

I'll say more later, gotta go...

Best regards,
- Christopher

Edit: research => investigate

[Roland Ziegler]

@pospec:

I admit, as a non-German speaker you might get the impression of being left alone, as many discussions on technical issues, route or model building or future developments do happen in the German sections and not here. And I understand the frustration that may arise from that. Christopher has tried to explain, why this happens. It is by no means intentionally.

But you can encourage people here to provide more information by keeping asking questions in English - it often simply needs a trigger.

I hope you will agree that almost all serious questions asked here have been properly answered, and I'm convinced this will also be the case for future questions.

[pospec]

Thank you Christopher for comprehensive description. I understand to your implications why "most users are german", I feel it same.

Carsten made a good rules to describe whatever signalling system, but only german (and great austrian) routes/systems are implemented. Why? There could be different routes from different countries (e. g. from Czech Republic, routes that are "nearby my location" ). I think that REAL rail fans are not interested only on their national railways. Maybe everyone isn't as curious as me. In this way (development of railways with all national details) has ZUSI great potential.

It is not problem for me to drive on german signalling system, since my first simulator was RailSim I think that good driver should drive good at whatever signal system, but it is a little bit off-theme.

Roland, I'd really like to read all the tons of posts about track building and about using your famous Tools. I will wait for new versions of editor and simulator and try to start from a scratch. I hope I won't wait too long (too long > year).

Thank you gentlemen for supporting me in this case. I just want Zusi to be open for all users which could bring more tracks and larger community.

[Christopher Spies]

I'm back...

There could be different routes from different countries (e. g. from Czech Republic, routes that are "nearby my location" ). I think that REAL rail fans are not interested only on their national railways.

You're right! As far as czech routes are concerned: Build one !
I don't mean to be disrespectful, that's just the way a similar comment would be answered in the german forum!

german routes are more entertaining

When I said that german routes might be more entertaining for german users I didn't mean to imply that they're not interested in foreign routes -- but perhaps a german route, especially if it's setting is in the past, awakens childhood memories . Also more rolling stock is available, so there can be many more different trains on the same route -- the fun lasts longer, and everyone can drive his favourite vehicle.

Some more things I wanted to add:

• I wouldn't mind if the entire forum was in english, but there might be others, especially elder members of the Zusi community, whose english knowledge is even rustier than mine.
• There are a lot of categories and sub-categories in the german part of the forum, but there is only one english sub-category where all the english topics are put. Maybe that's why it is treated "stepmotherly" by the german community.
• Perhaps there should be a separate english, international forum independent from this one. However, this would only be of interest if some Zusi gurus like Carsten himself and Roland here would also visit it.
• How about closing down the english sub-forum and simultaneously allowing non-german posts in every category?
• The best way would of course be the following: Find enough railroad fans from the Czech Republic, UK, Denmark, or whereever all you guys out there may be from and create some routes and rolling stock. You won't need us anymore ...
  Surely Carsten will eventually implement the corresponding train control system.
  Sadly, a hungarian group was a little put off when their rolling stock was not allowed to become an official add-on because they used too many polygons (if I remember correctly ).

Best regards,
- Christopher

[Christoph Blümer]

Isn't that a vicious circle?

Yes, in a certain way, but what would be the consequence if we would discuss regularly in English?

- not every Zusi fan in germany is able to understand an write in English
- discussions with technical details won't be as productive as they are today because we need to translate too much
- a lot of people could be put off due to the foreign language

Discussing in english is no problem for me . I wouldn't mind if this forum was entirely in english.

For me also it's not a general problem, but it takes more time to write and read a foreign language. I think my English isn't too bad, but if it's not absolutely necessary (discussions with foreign colleagues and suppliers, publications, ...) I prefer German.
Think about those people who never learned English well - what will you do with them?

A mixture of both languages could be an acceptable solution for this dilemma (nevertheless we would increase the number of posts due to the inevitable translation trials...), but we would have to set a limit to these two languages. I'm not convinced that discussions in kisuaheli will have any positive impact on the forum or Zusi in general...

Christoph

[Christian Gründler]

Hello pospec,

please allow me a personal comment: I invested much time in the English translation of the Driving Simulator and the Route Editor (programs and manuals). Both are available for more than a year. And where are the English speaking route creators? As a matter of fact: after much enthusiasm on both sides just two years ago the English community has nearly vanished.

I find this situation quite frustrating, but the anwer cannot be to discuss all topics in English. Have a look at BVE: I doubt that there is any support from Japan (Mackoy's website is unreadable for Europeans), but there is a flourishing Britisch BVE community. How did they overcome the language barrier? Maybe it's just a question of guts.

Regards,
Christian

[Carsten Hölscher]

I think one English forum is better than a few English posts among hundreds of German. So a non German-speaking reader can quickly find everything written in English.

It would of course be nice if everyone could read everything...I don't know how to solve this problem. There are many German users who are not able to write or even read English texts

So please ask in English and we will try to help you and give you all information you need.

Carsten