Thank you for the "English page"!

Hey folks, everyone speaking English may write in this category!
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Bruce Kennewell
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#21 Beitrag von Bruce Kennewell »

AndiK hat geschrieben:I remember that route on BVE - it never worked on my machine...
The original file was in RW mode (text) and then the next version of BVE changed the route data to spreadsheet and I never converted the route.
Someone else did (Wulf_9, in England) and it works fine.....I downloaded it only a month or so ago to see what it was like and enjoyed running it! :)

But it - or its descendant - would be much better in Zusi than BVE.....and I mean that sincerely.

Regards,
Bruce.

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Roland Ziegler
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#22 Beitrag von Roland Ziegler »

BTW, Bruce are you going to use large scale topo maps and DEMs for the layout and the "terraforming" of your route?

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Bruce Kennewell
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#23 Beitrag von Bruce Kennewell »

Roland Ziegler hat geschrieben:......Bruce are you going to use large scale topo maps and DEMs for the layout and the "terraforming" ....?
Well, this has me a bit worried, Roland, because DEM for Australia is not available free-of-charge; one pays a hefty price for this data.

In addition, other than experimenting within the MTS Route Editor, importing some DEM data and then generating a map, I have never used DEM seriously.

Is there any other way to generate a route in Zusi or is DEM usage the only method available?

Regards,
Bruce.

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Roland Ziegler
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#24 Beitrag von Roland Ziegler »

Is there any other way to generate a route in Zusi or is DEM usage the only method available?
First we have to distinguish track laying from terraforming. It's a bit like a model railway. First you do the track laying, with the assistance of the route editor and possibly my little "Track Surveyor". The latter requires accurate topo maps from which you can peg out the route and then lay the track to fit the peg line while adhering to railway construction standards, like proper transition curves.

After that you add trackside features like embankments or cuttings, tunnels, bridges, station platforms etc.

The last step is terraforming itself with several options.

The route editor offers basic capabilities and will create a plain terrain around your track layout. You can manually modify this terrain to a certain extent to create hills and valleys.

Another option is to use a DEM of some kind. This will bring my "Terrain Shaper" into the the game.

For modeling a mainly flat scenery this tool can create a DEM on the fly taking the track layout and deriving elevations from that.

This may do for Sydney suburbia but won't be appropriate for the Blue Mountains. There we presumably want a proper DEM. There are quite a few routes in Zusi which are based on real DEMs, the Demo is one. (The Demo and others were also built with the "Track Surveyor".)

How do we obtain a DEM? First choice will be looking for available ASTER DEMs. These are satellite data, in a 30m grid, currently free of charge, and will be created for all continents (hopefully).

However, most of them need a little post processing. They often only provide relative elevations and need ground control points to adjust these. There may also be artefacts which need to be eliminated, or holes (clouds, water surfaces) to be filled. I am currently working on my next tool which will assist in this post processing.

And then there is always the option of hand crafting the DEM based on contour lines. I am currently aware of two tools, TSTF and TSTools, which support this approach. You need to trace the contour lines from a topo map, the tool will create the DEM. I am planning to offer this approach for my new tool as well.

Finally there are some expensive commercial tools around which automate the process of contour line tracing and the "Blackart" project by John Childs.

(This has been a little advertising for my tools, I hope you don't mind. The tools can be found on the Zusi CD, awaiting translation).
Zuletzt geändert von Roland Ziegler am 20.12.2003 08:40:13, insgesamt 1-mal geändert.

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Bruce Kennewell
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#25 Beitrag von Bruce Kennewell »

Thank you, Roland. That was a very easily understood explanation. I really think that you should be the person responsible for translating ALL of Zusi! :)

Because DEM for the area I wish to model is only available commercially - at least, anything usable is only available for money - it looks as if I will have to use the "contour lines" method if I am going to be able to achieve my aim.
This means that your tools (which I have certainly opened and then closed again when I couldn't understand what I was looking at!) will certainly need to be used......when translated, of course! :)

With your explanation, I take it that the actual route, that is, the trackage itself and all railway infrastructure, can actually be laid out on a flat plan first, and then the ground can be shaped and formed with all the infrastructure remaining undisturbed? Is that correct or do I have the wrong idea?

I have, of course, opened up the Zusi tools and had a look at the various screens and menus, feeling somewhat like the Egyptologists must have felt when they tried to unravel the meaning of hieroglyphics. :)
One question leaped into my mind: how does one place an object into/onto the terrain? Say a house or a tree? Is this done via a set of co-ordinates, for every object?

So many questions, so little time! :D :D

Bruce.

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Roland Ziegler
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#26 Beitrag von Roland Ziegler »

Just a short reply on the ASTER topic. Answers to your other questions will follow later (tomorrow for you, presumably)

I checked the ASTER database. We do have one DEM for the Sydney area with 9% cloud cover which may be too much. How far west do you want to build? I checked for Lithgow. They have about 100 images covering Sydney to Lithgow, overlapping. These images are used to produce custom DEMs, currently at no charge. But it will take a couple of weeks/months for them to do that. I think I will have a closer look at the thumbnail images and then order those DEMs, four at most, I would guess. Each DEM is about 70 x 70 km.

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Bruce Kennewell
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#27 Beitrag von Bruce Kennewell »

Penrith to Lithgow, Roland.
I'll leave the suburban network (Sydney Central out to Penrith) for another time, another person; it's the 'Mountains which I want to model.

I have the complete set of New South Wales Government Railways track plans, gradients and profiles, which I bought two years ago, for the entire route between Penrith and Lithgow Yard.
These, coupled with topographical maps, are what I would use to create the route without DEM. A long and tedious task but one which I would like to do once familiar with the utilities and tools.

Regards,
Bruce.

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Roland Ziegler
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#28 Beitrag von Roland Ziegler »

Penrith to Lithgow
Alright. That's still a hundred kilometers but will reduce the number of images I have to analyse. I forgot about the distances, I just looked it up in my little railfan booklet of NSW. And track plans and gradients will certainly help a lot.

I take it that the actual route, that is, the trackage itself and all railway infrastructure, can actually be laid out on a flat plan first
Not quite. I simplified it too much, I'm afraid. You lay the track into emtpy 3D space and add the terrain later. The terrain will not reshape any trackage, on the contrary, the terrain will be shaped to fit the trackage.

Which brings me to "Streckenlandschaft" which we need to translate.

"Streckenlandschaft" has no counterpart in the real world. It's a Zusi term comprising trackage plus trackside features.

how does one place an object into/onto the terrain?
That's surely one thing where I am not an expert.

One option is to link the object to a "route element", another Zusi term, describing a short piece of (straight) track plus features and properties like signals and events. This procedure is explained in the route building tutorial.

When you link an object like a signal box or a station building to a route element you take advantage of the route element orientation to align the object. (A Zusi scene is standard 3D object hierarchy with pivot points.)

But we do have real experts here, people who have planted a thousand trees and more. They will be able to illustrate other options.

Jason-M
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Registriert: 20.12.2003 16:21:21
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#29 Beitrag von Jason-M »

I would just like to say thanks for the English section as well.
I have been a longtime fan of Zusi and have prayed for an English translated version for a long time.
I have got cd version 9 at the moment and have got to re-install it back on my pc, though there are many updates available I see.

Thanks to everyone who are translating the instructions and thanks to Carsten for the great simulation.

--
Jason M

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Bruce Kennewell
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#30 Beitrag von Bruce Kennewell »

Roland Ziegler hat geschrieben:You lay the track into emtpy 3D space and add the terrain later. The terrain will not reshape any trackage, on the contrary, the terrain will be shaped to fit the trackage.
Aha! Now that makes sense to me....sorry I didn't grasp that at first.
"Streckenlandschaft" has no counterpart in the real world. It's a Zusi term comprising trackage plus trackside features.
Okay, I understand that meaning. It means a composite of both aspects.
One option is to link the object to a "route element", .....
When you link an object like a signal box or a station building to a route element you take advantage of the route element orientation to align the object.
Okay...that's understood, Roland.
So it's not as simple as populating the landscape in MTS, for instance, where objects are selected and placed into the landscape as separate items. In Zusi they are "connected" to the trackage.

Once again, thanks for your excellent explanations.
This may be a steep learning curve for me! :D

Regards,
Bruce.

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Christian Gründler
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#31 Beitrag von Christian Gründler »

Jason-M hat geschrieben:I have been a longtime fan of Zusi and have prayed for an English translated version for a long time.
Hello Jason,

of course we respect your privacy, but I am interested to know where you live. Would you like to write at least the country in which you are living into your profile?

Thank you.
Zuletzt geändert von Christian Gründler am 21.12.2003 10:50:08, insgesamt 2-mal geändert.

Jason-M
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#32 Beitrag von Jason-M »

Sorry Christian I forgot to add the details to my profile, all done now.
I am from the South of England.

Thanks

Jason M

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