Feste Beltquerung

[Carsten Hölscher]

one bugfix can be: Rename the tool in "Zusi-timetable-generator that does not run over midnight" (I am nit sure, of it is necessary t orun over midnight ?)

Carsten

[Thomas Himmelstrup]

You are right, Carsten. It is not really important.

[MichaG]

Hallo,
seems to be the same problem that occurs in the "Fahrplanverschieber" in Andreas Damms´s "Zusi-Tool" when trying to shift a time-table across midnight (e. g. "25:30 ist keine gültige Uhrzeit"). I remember old Zusi Times when date and time were stored in decimal format. If there would be a simple way to convert Zusi Time Format into decimal (and reconvert after manipulating), this could perhaps be a solution.

CU
Micha

[Thomas Himmelstrup]

I'm afraid the problem is worse. I think it has something to do with the original danish timetables the program use (I got them from the internet at http://www.railsoft.dk who are now closed). These timetables have information about which trains runs on which days. Thus, for instance, a train that runs from A to B via C once a week starting in A sunday night would be announced in the timetable to run from A to C sundays, and from C to B mondays. Maybe it's just me, but this ends up being a really complex thing to analyze programtically.

[stuvar]

thanks for your version of the timetable but I'm afraid because only you have all the vehicles you placed there (e.g. the ME is missing).
So I coulndn't test it - but thats no problem.


---


Nachdem Thomas die Erlaubnis gegeben hat, hier mein Fahrplan für 12-16 Uhr mit dem 2005er Fahrplan. Enthalten sind Personen und Güterverkehr, sowie einwenig Autoverkehr.

[Thomas Himmelstrup]

The timetable included with the beta2 dos'nt work.
The reason is, that I changed the structure of the danish loks and waggons in order to make it up to the official zusi structure. So the timetable follow the new correct structure, but the old loks dos'nt.
A new Beta2 without the timetable is uploaded.
I'm really sorry for any inconvenience I may have caused.

I will soon publish all the loks and waggons I got, and a lot of timetables.
Unfortunately, my sparetime is disturbed with stupid things like eating and going to work

I have to remove any copyrighted stuff from my cabviews before publishing them, thats timeconsuming.

How does the danish train control system work?

I just found out that the danish ATC system is a Siemens ZUB 123. Does anyone know what differs ZUB 122 from ZUB 123 ?

[Bastian Bode]

Hello!

(Vorbemerkung: für die Englischfaulen findet sich eine Übersetzung einen Absatz tiefer )

I have now uploaded a timetable for Thomas' beta2 to Zusi-Exchange which fits the old structure as offered by Thomas on his site. This timetable will only be offered temporarily and I will (hopefully ) have it removed as soon as Thomas publishes his collection of danish trains in the new structure. I will then republish the timetable with the new structure and some improvements.
The timetable is set on a Wednesday in August, from 7 am to 12 pm.
Enjoy!

Ich habe eben einen Fahrplan für Thomas' Beta2 in Zusi-Exchange hochgeladen, der mit der Struktur arbeitet, wie sie Thomas auf seiner Seite anbietet. Es handelt sich nur um einen temporäres Angebot und ich werde (hoffentlich) für die Löschung sorgen, sobald Thomas seine Sammlung dänischer Fahrzeuge in der neuen Struktur veröffentlicht. Dann werde ich den Fahrplan mit der neuen Struktur und einigen Verbesserungen wiederveröffentlichen.
Der Fahrplan "spielt" an einem Mittwoch im August, zwischen 7 und 12 Uhr. Viel Spass!

Best regards/Gruss
-BB

[Christoph Blümer]

I just found out that the danish ATC system is a Siemens ZUB 123. Does anyone know what differs ZUB 122 from ZUB 123 ?

I found something in German:

"ZUB 122 (NeiTech-Züge, DB)
Für die Überwachung von Neigezügen, die in Kurven um bis zu 50 km/h
schneller fahren können als herkömmliche Züge, wird das Zugbeeinflussungssystem ZUB 122 eingesetzt. Dieses punktförmige Datenübertragungsystem (PDS) kann eine große Anzahl von Informationen auf den Zug übertragen. Die ortsfesten Einrichtungen kommen ohne Stromversorgung aus und übertragen im allgemeinen nur Festprogramme. In Sonderfällen können sie auch signalabhängig
gesteuert sein. Aus den Daten wird die zulässige Geschwindigkeit
ermittelt und im Führerraum angezeigt. [39]"

Short english summary: it's for NeiTech trains like the Pendolino; the data transfer takes place at fixed points in the route and this devices normally can only transfer static informations about the route. Inside the cab the computer calculates the maximum speed which is indicated.


"ZUB 123 (Dänische Staatsbahnen DSB)
Das System ZUB 123 kombiniert punkt- und linienförmige Übertragungselemente.
An markanten Streckenpunkten wie Signalstandorten oder Bahnübergängen werden die Informationen über Gleiskoppelspulen übertragen. In Bereichen, wo die Sicherheit oder Leistungsfähigkeit eine ständige Übertragung an das Fahrzeug erfordert, werden Aufwerteschleifen verlegt. [23]"

The system combines point-based and line-based data transfer - seems like a mixture of LZB and ZUB122.

As I see it should be realisable in Zusi...

Christoph

[Thomas Himmelstrup]

As I see it should be realisable in Zusi...

Well, that would be cool

There is another thing that might be a little danish speciality: differentiated speed limits.. where the line has a normal speed limit, and then another and higher speed limit for socalled light trains (like the ic3). And yet another much lower limit for trains not equipped with ATC.

I have'nt found a way to do that in zusi.

[Carsten Hölscher]

train-dependent speed-limits are not possible. You can only reduce the train's general max-speed.

And I think th eDanisch ZUB ist different from the ZUB-System Zusi simulates. Choosing LZB ist probably the best solution.

Carsten

[F(R)S-Bauer]

Hello Thomas,

first, sorry for my bad english, it is "German English"

I thing, you can use the GNT funktion to handel the light trains.
In Germany light trains are the BR 610-612 ICE-T, ICE-D.

If you use the Event 40xx to Design the Route, you can dicide between normal speed and light train speed, if you give the light train a ZUB122

Warning, the Interaktion between ZUB122 and LZB is not exactly programmed (it's right Carsten?). You shell stop LZB and then Start GNT and vise versa.

regards

Ralf

[Carsten Hölscher]

you can either use GNT or ZUB, not both at the same time (in Zusi and irl)

Carsten

[Oliver Lamm]

@Ralf:

You shouldn't apaologise for your english - grammar isn't a favorite subject in Britain anyway - I'm proofreading the emails of my native english speaking manager :-)

What are you refering to as light trains ? Do you mean tilting trains (Neigezüge) ?

Oli

[Bastian Bode]

What are you refering to as light trains ? Do you mean tilting trains (Neigezüge) ?

I'm quoting http://www.bane.dk/db/filarkiv/1081/TIB.pdf page 58:

"Overhastighed, gælder for særlige togsæt, der er fuldt overvåget af et togkontolanlæg på strækninger med faste ATC-anlæg."

I'd translate that to: "Overspeed, applies to all edit:special trainsets which are controlled by the traincontrol system on routes with permanently installed ATC equipment". (perhaps Thomas can correct me if I'm wrong).
AFAIR that means some trains on routes with ATC are allowed to make use of a higher lateral acceleration.

As opposed to:
"Gælder for øvrige tog, der er fuldt overvåget af et togkontrolanlæg på strækninger med faste ATCanlæg."

"Applies to all other trainsets which are controlled by the traincontrol system on routes with permanently installed ATC equipment".

That has nothing to do with tilting, it's a matter of comfort for the passengers and, of course, means a higher strain for the trackwork, so that applies to lighter trains only. IIRC the Austrian Railways used this principle when reducing the journey time of trains hauled with class 4010 on Wien-Salzburg.
Again, please correct me if I'm wrong.

Kind regards
-BB

Edit 08/23/05, 1:05 pm: wrong translation of "særlige" corrected

[Oliver Lamm]

Hmm... somehow that makes sense. I've just read it in combination with the GNT. Thanks for the explanation/translation

Oli

[Thomas Himmelstrup]

I think Bastians translation is very exact.

And I agree about this is not about tilting trains. I dont think there are any tilting technology in any danish trains.

I can add a quote from http://www.bane.dk/db/filarkiv/179/Strk01.pdf which is the route data of the route Copenhagen - Fredericia:

The top of the document defines a route speed limit of 160 km/h. Then it adds "Route speed limit for trainsets with documented low impact of the track (special trainsets): 180 km/h". It does'nt say exactly what trains that is, but it must be the IC3 and IR4 flexliners.

[stuvar]

The use of GNT is not practicable because you have no pre-signals so one can not see which speed the next signal allows.

[Carsten Hölscher]

ZUB and tilting trains are two different things. But in Germany they are always used parallel, so it is often nicht distinguished.
You can also (in Zusi) equip a non-tilting-train with ZUB122 and it then can run the higher ZUB-speed-limit

Carsten

[stuvar]

As your beta2 is not compatible to my timetable i converted it for use one beta2. Here is the link.

Und nochmal auf Deutsch:

Da die Beta2 nicht mehr mit meinem ersten Fahrplan kompatibel ist hab ich ihn umgebaut. HIER gibt den wieder funktionierenden Fahrplan.

[Bastian Bode]

As your beta2 is not compatible to my timetable i converted it for use one beta2. Here is the link.

Nice timetable, but one remark, if I may: you seem to have mixed the trainsets up. Your Lyns and IC from Lindholm/Frederikshavn are hauled by the electric class ER, the IC from Sønderborg with the diesel class MF. Trouble is, the line to Sønderborg is completely electrified, whereas the line to Århus-Aalborg-Lindholm-Frederikshavn is not. A map of electrified routes in denmark can be found at http://www.bane.dk/1024/visArtikel.asp?artikelID=572 or at Thorsten Büker's excellent page of European railway maps at http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/index.php .

Kind regards
Bastian